Why Not Here

[Steve Huffman]

Just wanted to mention that it's actually far easier to "data mine" postings here on .ORG than it is to data mine Facebook. In both cases, anyone can go to .ORG and lurk, search for keywords etc, and they can also go to Facebook groups, lurk and search (provided it's an "open" group).

The big difference is Facebook prevents "Web Bots" from gathering info for search engines like Google. So while I can easily use Google to data mine steamboats.org, I don't get much if I try to use Google to data mine Facebook groups. (unless the creator of the group has enabled a special option to allow Web Bots to gather info, which is not the default, and rarely enabled).

So for example, if I go to Google and do a site search on the phrase "JOHN J. KELLY" appearing only within steamboats.org, I type this in at Google's prompt:
site:steamboats.org "JOHN J. KELLY"
and Google lists 19 or more postings I can go look at.

If I try to use Google to data mine my Facebook group ("Gas & Diesel Sternwheel Boats"), I type this into Google:
site:facebook.com "Gas & Diesel Sternwheel Boats" "JOHN J. KELLY"

and even though the JOHN J. KELLY was a topic in the group, I get no search results because search engines can't data mine the facebook group.

Actually, I kinda like how I can use Google, Bing, etc, to data mine steamboats.org for historical fact, whereas I can't do that to the many facebook steamboat groups. I can go to those groups in Facebook and search them directly, but for research, that takes much longer than using Google. Plus facebook postings can be difficult to find when they get buried.

So there are good things, and bad things...

At any rate, I too wish .ORG was still the most convenient way to post and share, and I thank Franz and Carmen for providing this forum for so many years. It will always be a great resource.

[Rob Hermann]

I just wanted to let you all know, I check this board almost daily. I'm fascinated by the information, the stories and the pictures. I hope this board never goes away. I'm not a fan of Facebook either but I am on it once in a great while. Mostly, when I see something here that points me to it. I don't post a lot because the only things I know, I have learned here for the most part but I am here.

Anyway, I just want to say thank you to all of you for being here and posting. By the way, I haven't seen a "live from the levee" lately, we're due. Thanks again.

Robbie

[Judy Patsch]

Rob re: Live from...

That's because I haven't been on the levee since August! I had a NOLA trip planned for November but cancelled because I just was too tired of not being at home - I wasn't necessarily out of town, but I was so busy I spent very little time in my house. But come the end of March, I'll be heading back down there!

[Judy Patsch]

Why...

Over a week and just one posting, 148 views on the DQ Memories page. Hate Facebook all you want, but then support this board by posting. If you don't have memories pre 90, surely you have some questions about that era....Last time I'll comment on this lament.

[David Dewey]

Yes Judy, but the postings over here are more scholarly!!
:)

[Franz Neumeier]

Jim,

I'd love to provide a plattform for these pictures here on steamboats.org.

The key issue with this is copyrights ... There is no way I can make sure all pictures posted are okay regarding copyrights. So this would be a huge liability risk. Facebook has herds of good lawyers (and the money to pay them) - I don't, unfortunately.

Franz

[Judy Patsch]

Ja, wir verstehen!!!!

Franz, I think we all understand the limitations one non-billionaire person has in providing a website, and we're grateful for this wonderful forum. My gripe is that those griping about my Facebook site and wanting more on here are griping and not doing any informative posting themselves on here. As I posted recently after a week of inactivity, perhaps they don't have memories pre-1990 to share or pix to post, but don't they at least have questions or comments to continue the thread I started after Jim's initial posting? As Bob pointed out, it is disheartening to post and then get no response to your effort. Yes, we can see the number of people who have viewed a posting, but when that posting apparently doesn't kindle any further interest, why bother? Sadly the majority of our previously active members have probably gone completely to Facebook and other platforms, but we've got a very knowledgeable group still here... I don't look to rack up hundreds of 'likes', but it would be nice to see that someone else is interested in what I've posted through them adding to the thread - or starting their own thread on a topic. Beating a dead horse, I guess!

[Franz Neumeier]

Fortunately not a dead horse at all, Judy ;-) I've just checked the statistics for the recent three years and traffic has just slightly gone down. So there are still a lot of people visiting steamboats.org (and especially the message boards). It's about 7.000 people monthly, that's a couple of hundred per day.

So my suggestion is that over the recent years, Facebook has just added to the places people visit, and maybe some other sources as well. I guess people are reading more sources but commenting less as a result from that, dealing with a limited time budget.

That, of course, is just a guess, but similar behavior can be observed all over the Internet. Doing a quick "like" on Facebook or firing a quick three-word-comment on twitter is much easier than writing a good comment on a message board. It's information overload everywhere ...

[ed frazier]

Likes and Replies

Hi Judy and Franz,
I love this page and use facebook as well. I refer many to these pages for correct and accurate information on boats an d the river. I just seldom post, due to my lack of knowledge or right to answer the questions. I don't frequent too many facebook boat pages, due to the wild stories that fly on there. I love how I can come here and get the facts and enjoy a great read. Please don't ever feel your or any ones posts here are unloved. For they are very much cared for.
Ed

[Jim Reising]

Franz....I wish I understood copyright law. One thing I know pretty much about is the Howard photo collection. If you see a Howard photo on the Howard web site you will see it is copy righted by Howards, the same picture on the Murphy Library site is copyrighted by them, and the same photo on the University of Louisville site is copy righted by them, same is true for that exact same image on the Cincinnati library site. Most of the photos posted are in such general circulation and so old it would seem they would be like old songs, in the public domain. I think the real concern is they don't want someone to make money using images from their site, like someone publishing a book of the "Complete Howard Collection" using images they got for free by downloading from the web site. I guess it would take a room full of Philadelphia lawyers to figure it out.

[Bill Judd]

I have to laugh when I see the copyright warning on Cincinnati-Hamilton County Library and Murphy Library sites. When I was just a teenager I worked two jobs to get money to buy photos from Capt. Fred Way. I think they were a dollar each for 5x7's. Over the years I purchased over 800 photos. Never thought anything of it until the digital world appeared. Then suddenly there on both sites were my Way photos with the stern warning that they were protected by copyright. My thought to both institutions was "stuff it". I also had the brilliant idea, when I could drive, to run ads in local papers, Augusta.Maysville, Vanceburg,Manchester, Portsmouth etc. "Don't throw out river related items in the trash, I will gladly pick them up, sorry no money to buy". Boy I got lucky, lots of photos that later showed up in the Ralph Dupae findings. Again Murphy said copyright protected but I had them first, so there!!

[Judy Patsch]

Right on!

Just think how many of us have some pix there through Ralph...copyrighted indeed!

[Keith Baylor]

Howdy, all - for what it's worth, I am among those still reading .org and grateful indeed for its presence. I post little - and never have - because I don't have the actual steamboating experience, but enjoy mightily the stories of those that do. Be assured that you may see few - or even no - responses to your posts, but they are appreciated by others.

The notion of replicating the content of .org in some sort of printed volume is a worthy one. I imagine there is some very quick and clever way to do so, but 'twould take one skilled in the digital arts to know how.

Best regards to all. Long live steamboats.org!

[Franz Neumeier]

Jim,

I agree: really understanding copyrights is not easy at all. (and we're only talking about US copyrights here; if you go internationally, it's even much more complicated).

One thing is very clear, though: Owning a picture, even if it's an "original", does NOT automatically mean you're holding any copyrights - no matter whether you've bought the picture, received it as a present from the photographer himself, found it in the trash or what ever else.

Copyright holder is the creator, i.e. the photographer or his ancestors. Only these persons can legally grant the right to use, publish or distribute the work. (other rules apply for work for hire, but basically it's very similar anyway).

When talking about Delta Queen pictures, i.e. from later than 1923, it's very likely they're copyright protected in some way. How, whether and why is very complicated and in many cases you won't even be able to figure out at all whether a picture is protected at all or who might actually legally hold copyrights - for details see Wikipedia, capter "Duration of copyright" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyri..._United_States

That's why for steamboats.org it is almost impossible to deal with this issue and to make sure that copyrights are clearly figured out for every single pictures that might be posted on this website ... Sad, but true ...

Franz