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*RE: 'Idle thoughts/MQ Steel for China*

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  • R. Dale Flick
    replied
    *RE: ARMCO/'Buy American.*
    Hi, Tom:
    Thanks for your view of ARMCO. Eons ago at University of Cincinnati the profs hauled a bus of us from an industrial economics class up to ARMCO in Middletown, OH for a night tour of the whole plant. I was amazed, in awe, of the operation from the coke rendering furnaces to blast furnaces, huge ladels pouring steel walking over the cat walk above huge red sheets of steel under our feet from the rolling line with the heat glowing, flaming at night.

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  • Tom Schiffer
    replied
    Dale: Kinda ironic; back in 1960, when I worked for ARMCO, our motto was "buy American". ARMCO stands for American Rolling Mill Company! THey were one of the biggest innovators in the steel industry. Cap'n Walnut.

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  • R. Dale Flick
    replied
    *RE: No copper/Lumber for Asia*
    Hi, Judy & Steamboating colleagues:
    Got that right about "No copper." That commodity on the market has been bleeding out of the U.S. and other nations fast. Bronze also from industrial fittings, ornamental objects also being 'stolen' and sold as we speak.

    Another commodity on the markets I've seen several times aboard ship is the huge amounts of lumber from our Northwest, Canada, Alaska destined for the Asian markets. Pine, spruce etc. Spruce favored in Asia for musical instruments not to mention construction, furniture etc. I'll check my commodities for pulp paper also.

    Some of the first ships through the Panama Canal in 1914 were from China and Japan laden with tons of finished/raw silk for the U.S. and world market. American freighters from our West Coast went east laden with millions of empty beer bottles for recyling. What goes around comes around. I learned a quick lesson in etiquette talking to Chinese friends in Hong Kong and using the word 'Oriental.' I was politely corrected that the term is 'Asian.' OUCH!

    R. Dale Flick
    Summer: Lake Leelanau, MI

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  • Judy Patsch
    replied
    No copper

    One thing is for sure: there is no copper to be had now. It was all stripped off by the scrap 'agents' in NOLA!

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  • R. Dale Flick
    replied
    *RE: Steel for China*
    Hi, Judy & Steamboating colleagues:
    The U.S./Chinese steel market and industry is a long story getting more interesting as time passes. I dug in some of my market reports and in the name of brevity found some facts. Steel is not only sold but is 'auctioned' on the market to competing bidders by metric ton. Ore and related scrap metals do wax and wane on the market but profits can be great. Bulk ship transport, as others here know, can be very profitable. If shipped in Chinese vessels and crews overhead margin is reduced. I am amazed at the huge, modern Chinese vessels I see transiting the Panama Canal.

    'Shred' steel by metric ton currently between $1,673 to $1,749. Copper, naturally, higher at an astounding $7,138 per metric ton. Most copper going to China calls 'automotive copper' from scrapped vehicles. Steel needs for China in the year 2011estimated at 120,000,000 metric tons. The big boy playing a part in this market is U.S. based ARMCO [Or CHINA ARMCO] a U.S. owned company in San Mateo, California with interests all over the world. In some instances I find porfolio investments earning a higher rate yield than stocks here. It can be a risk like all other investing. How much should you invest in the market? Only what you can afford to lose.

    I'm in the dark RE: steel/metals from the MQ; so perhaps others out there know more. So, whether cut in small part, compressed or shredded, her steel could be most profitable. I doubt any would be melted here first due to U.S. costs; yet, the ARMCO CHINA reports show me they also deal in 'ingots' by the metric ton. A Cincinnati friend of mine kills himself as an agent on the international commodities market checking stocks on agricultural products, metals, oils, chemicals from morning to night. Well, what do I know? Cheers!

    R. Dale Flick
    Summer: Lake Leelanau, MI

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  • Judy Patsch
    replied
    Price of steel

    So, is the steel going to sell for more in China than here, and enough to cover the shipping costs?

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  • R. Dale Flick
    started a topic *RE: 'Idle thoughts/MQ Steel for China*

    *RE: 'Idle thoughts/MQ Steel for China*

    Steamboating colleagues:
    Hated to start a new 'thread' but Judy's questions on steel from the MQ to China excellent. Again, I don't know all the answers and would never stoop to claim I was any expert.

    The job of cutting up the MQ not all that complicated. How the boat's steel is transported to a Chinese bound cargo ships a good question. These people here and there have it down to a science either in bulk, compressed or 'ground' up. No doubt loaded on freighters to transit the Panama Canal. The big HANJIN Line possible as I've seen. In China, like here, in-coming scrap quickly separated ready for the huge electric furnices. China, rich in coal, deficient in metal ores.

    I read recently in one of my financial reports an article titled, 'Steel for the mills of China' reflecting an acclaimed book written in 1933 titled 'Oil for the lamps of China,' by novelist Alice Hobart focusing on the arrival of 'Standard Oil' in China and the agent Stephen Crane who "sells out to his company" during the Chinese revolutions of the 1920s. What goes around comes around. Yet, it's all legal, approved in the name of business.

    A number on this web well recall the massive sale of scrap metal to emerging Japan in the 1920s and 1930s. This only to be fired back at us as ammunition after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, Dec. 1941. What China 'fires back' at us today results in massive trade deficits. I'm only a small insignificant international investor in my 401K. Well, what do I know?

    R. Dale Flick
    Summer: Lake Leelanau, MI by the shores of mighty Lake Michigan.
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