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    #16
    Capt. Bill

    While I agree the Towing knees on what you refered to as "the other boat" are unusually large, in Steve Huffman's previous picture of the Kelly with the barge Frankkin you can make out some yery extra large towing knees.

    Ed Ray

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      #17
      Hines

      Ed: You have good eyes. Those same knees do show up with the "Franklin" barge. Every photo I have shows the Kelley with narrow wood faced knees. Now I wonder when the new knees were added. In that photo her freeboard also seems a lot higher than I remember. Maybe the "old girl" got a facelift.
      In answer to your question, the Kelley burned at Rising Sun, In. on 8-29-58 and the Hines Zephyr ( later the Keene) became a houseboat called the Norma A and sunk at Duffy, Oh in 1978. Her remains were still there for many years.

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        #18
        I'm not sure when they changed the towknees, but the John J Kelly seems to have received a number of changes sometime after 1953 and before or during 1956. Maybe Hines sold the boat in 1955 and it was remodeled(?). My Inland River Records jump from 1949 to 1959, and by '59 there is no mention of the John J. Kelly, even in the "Former Names" section.

        I have the following info from someone:
        "The Kelly usually had three barges for Gulf. One each went to the Carrollton dock, just above Lock #1, the Frankfort dock, just above #4, and the last to Camp Nelson. She laid by at Camp Nelson while the barge was pumped out and then back down to collect the other barges. Her loading point was at Gulf-North Bend. When the Kelly wore out, Hines placed the M/V Producers in that trade."

        The first photo is from July 7, 1943. The next is from August 1951, and finally the September 1956 photo with guards "awash". By 1956 she suddenly has a captain's quarters behind the pilothouse, "wing bridge" steps and other minor changes. All of these things must have added more weight, and she already had very little freeboard. I also have a 1953 photo in which she does not yet have these changes.

        I'm always looking for more info on these boats!

        (1943 photo courtesy of the Boat Photo Museum: boatphotos@mindspring.com; 1951 and 1956 photos courtesy of Betty's Family Collectibles, Carrollton, KY).
        Attached Files
        Last edited by Steve Huffman; 08-22-2007, 08:16 PM. Reason: Added photo credits

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          #19
          ...Correction... My 1953 photo shows the John J. Kelly WITH captain's quarters and the other changes, so these changes happened between 1951 and 1953. Does anyone know if there was a change of ownership around 1952?

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            #20
            Hines

            Steve: The Kelley stayed in Hines ownership till the bitter end in 1958. The qoute on her trade is from one of my older posts.

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              #21
              Hi Steve

              In your 1943 photo I think you can make out some very large towing knees even then as they look like they build-steps. (Great for a old deckhand) I also marvel at the amount of water the wheel is lifting as I recall that somewhere I heard that for the optomium wheel efficency is when the outer ring just breaks the water and normally this indicated when the water shed is about middle of the wheel. Any higher mean the buckets panks are digging too deep. That is the reason they load balance in the bow to trim up the wheel. At least that is what I learn when my dad was rebuilding the Jane Rhea. They even tested it by coming full ahead against the bank. Of course that was a long time ago.
              Best wishes Steve
              Ed

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                #22
                Yes, as Bill said, the Kelly had almost no freeboard in the 1950s. I suspect as they added more weight to the boat, they didn't bother with raising the height of the wheel shaft and bearings to make up for the deeper draft. So the buckets probably were digging too deep. But that's just my theory!

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                  #23
                  Hines

                  Steve that 1943 photo must have been taken just after Earl Webster converted her over to diesel. He also gave her that name, reportedly in honor of a war hero. She had been a steamboat, the Beder Wood. Built 1915 at Dubuque. The Kelley lasted 43 years, not bad. Hines had her 1943 to 1958. That's 15 years of very hard service on the Kentucky and Green and all done with 300 h.p. We've come a long way from that day and age.

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                    #24
                    Guess I will junp back in here, The Kelly had a lot of unusual feature in addition to the "no freeboard" theree was the "transom" type windows, and the crew quarters were elevated several feet I guess to allow the engine drive shaft direct access to the stern gearbox. With no AC back then and no doubt a oil fired galley range it must have made for some hot times during the summer months.

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                      #25
                      Mr. Ray, I am enjoying all the posts about the Hines boats. As I mentioned in my last post, I remember a pilot on the Producers who wore no jacket or outer shirt, even in very cold weather. He was always wearing a t-shirt when I saw him, when the temps. were in the teens and twenties. My father knew him well, but I don't remember his name. Could this have been your father?

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                        #26
                        D.M.
                        Please call me Ed and I am as thrilled as you are to be able to resurect some the very old memories of the Hines,Inc. The man you discribed Iam sure was not my dad who was about 5'5" stocky with an good size "steamboat spread" stomach hanging over his belt. When he was Capt of the Producer he must have been in his sixties but I recall his hair never turn silver gray just a "battleship" gray. He was a no non-sense type of guy but was known for pushing himself, standing double watches on a single crew boat. He was very well know on the Green and Barren Rivers as well as the Kentucky. If you had met him I am sure you would remember him. I still think of him every time I pass through Carrolton.
                        Regards,
                        Ed Ray

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                          #27
                          Thanks. I am David. I always tell people that "Mr. Smith" was my grandfather. My dad wasn't a mister, either. The only time I was around the towboat and barge men was from around 1958 to 1969. I never really got to know any of them. A pilot on the Producers let me steer her from Gulf at Frankfort up to the city water intake and back. The pilots used to invite us to eat on the boat quite often. I remember LOTS of great food.

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                            #28
                            David I could not pass up

                            David

                            I could not pass up an opportunity to add to your coments about the great food served on most of the working towboat, because that was one of the most important ways to attract and keep a good crew. Eating was perhaps the only real pleasure to look forward too, that and having good pot of coffee on the stove around the clock. My dad always told me as a deckhand to make sure your take care of the cook and she will take care of you. I remember when I worked for Commercial Barge Lines, I worked the afterwatch and was my responsibility to clean the galley about 3:30 AM before I would wake our cook, to make sure she never had to start breakfast with a dirty galley and dishes in the sink. As a result when ever we had something special and something was left over, I would always get a whisper "Bud, there is special treat for you on top of the cabinet." Yes you could always tell a happy crew with great food by the looks of Mate who was on the lead barge coming into the locks. There he was a loop of line in his throwing hand and a several loop in his othe hand, and his stomach hanging over his belt. That is what they call the "Steamboat Spread." Coming ahead slow!
                            Ed
                            Last edited by Edward Ray; 08-23-2007, 01:31 PM. Reason: spelling

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                              #29
                              Was this the same PRODUCERS that finished her days towing chemical barges on the Kanawha River from the Point to the Dow dock near Captain Harry White's landing on the upper reaches of that river until she burned around 1977?

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                                #30
                                To Ed Ray, yes, the food was amazing. I also wanted to add that the pilot I was thinking of had a shaved head, as is popular today. He probably weighed 250 pounds, and there was no fat on him! My father said he first knew him from Camp Nelson. My father knew a lot of the towboat folks, and I'm sure he would have known your father. He was a transport driver for Gulf, but occasionally filled in as a plantman when needed to receive a barge shipment. Plantmen are now called terminal operators. I can still see, hear and smell the foggy night air when a barge was pumping off.

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