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-   -   unsolved: Delta Queen or Delta King? (http://www.steamboats.org/forum/steamboats-history/1590-unsolved-delta-queen-delta-king.html)

Franz Neumeier 07-15-2007 04:22 AM

unsolved: Delta Queen or Delta King?
 
1 Attachment(s)
When I put up a "picture of the week" with a question, I usually do have the answer, too. In the case of the picture from two weeks ago ("[URL="http://www.steamboats.org/weblogs/archives/145-DELTA-QUEEN-or-DELTA-KING.html"]Delta King or Delta Queen[/URL]"), I don't and the comments to the picture didn't completely answer the question: Which boat is shown in the picture? [URL="http://www.steamboats.org/weblogs/archives/145-DELTA-QUEEN-or-DELTA-KING.html"]Is it the DELTA QUEEN or the DELTA KING?[/URL]

There are 3 votes for DELTA QUEEN, 2 votes for DELTA KING. Anyone around has the killer argument for one or the other boat?

Franz

Shipyard Sam 07-15-2007 08:33 AM

I'll Go for the King
 
Sorry, but if I could enlarge the name board I could give you an answer, although I do have some comments about the picture:

1. The suspension bridge in the background, with its distinctive "X" bracing is obviously the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge that opened in November 1936. Assuming the bridge is completed, this dates the picture between then and 29 September 1940, the last day of operation for the River Lines.

2. The twin steamboats were "night boats", so photographs of them cruising the bay and river was limited to times of the year when longer hours of sunlight let pictures be taken of then near arrival and departure times.

3. Infrequently, day trips were made, but these were times when the boats were seen flying every flags and pennant they had aboard. The naked flagstaffs in the photo stand out like telephone poles. The flags were likely taken down the evening before at sunset and won't be put up again until before boading for the next evening's departure.

4. The crowd on the forward decks is gathered in anticipation of a landing, so judging that the boat has just come under the Bay Bridge -- folks are gathered on the outer decks to see San Francisco as they approach the city after an all-night trip from Sacramento.

5. The signage on the side of the boat reminds me of Cap'n Lexie's work decades later, and I have not seen another picture that shows the same message. Obviously, this would date the picture precisely and perhaps even identify the boat.

6. My guess is the DELTA KING, just because more photos seem to be taken of that boat. But my guess is as good as any other, as the boats were identical except for the name boards....or were they?

David Dewey 07-15-2007 10:55 PM

I think this is the "proof," Delta Queen
 
1 Attachment(s)
This picture, also sold at the same time as the other picture (ebay, I was outbid!) shows the same water conditions and the same size crowd, and you can read "Delta Queen" on the bow.
S'
David D.

Shipyard Sam 07-15-2007 11:48 PM

You are absolutely right, and the picture also backs up my theory that the DQ had just passed under the Bay Bridge with everyone out on deck to watch the landing at San Francisco.

Frank X. Prudent 07-16-2007 01:13 AM

The River Lines' wharf in San Francisco was Wharf Number 3. I felt as I was on hollow grounds when I poked around it several years ago.

allen dale 05-06-2008 08:50 AM

[QUOTE=Shipyard Sam;6579]Sorry, but if I could enlarge the name board I could give you an answer, although I do have some comments about the picture:

1. The suspension bridge in the background, with its distinctive "X" bracing is obviously the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge that opened in November 1936. Assuming the bridge is completed, this dates the picture between then and 29 September 1940, the last day of operation for the River Lines.

2. The twin steamboats were "night boats", so photographs of them cruising the bay and river was limited to times of the year when longer hours of sunlight let pictures be taken of then near arrival and departure times.

3. Infrequently, day trips were made, but these were times when the boats were seen flying every flags and pennant they had aboard. The naked flagstaffs in the photo stand out like telephone poles. The flags were likely taken down the evening before at sunset and won't be put up again until before boading for the next evening's departure.

4. The crowd on the forward decks is gathered in anticipation of a landing, so judging that the boat has just come under the Bay Bridge -- folks are gathered on the outer decks to see San Francisco as they approach the city after an all-night trip from Sacramento.

5. The signage on the side of the boat reminds me of Cap'n Lexie's work decades later, and I have not seen another picture that shows the same message. Obviously, this would date the picture precisely and perhaps even identify the boat.

6. My guess is the DELTA KING, just because more photos seem to be taken of that boat. But my guess is as good as any other, as the boats were identical except for the name boards....or were they?[/QUOTE]
My Guess is the Queen. The DQ would run Sancremento to SF and arrive around the 6 AM mark. I believe in Fred Way's book about the DQ that He even remarked this photo was the DQ.

Jim Reising 05-06-2008 09:27 AM

Look at the forward mast on the bow...is that black ball a navigation light or a night hawk? Seems like a light in that position could potentially blind the pilot. That ball is not present in Dave's photo of the DQ. Ah the mystries that old photos reveal.
But, what do I know.

Bob Reynolds 05-06-2008 09:33 AM

Jim, I'm betting either a nighthawk or an "at anchor" dayshape. We can see the boat is coming ahead, but judging by the bow wave, not much headway has been achieved. If it is an anchor dayshape, maybe they just haven't taken it down yet.

Jim Reising 05-06-2008 04:17 PM

Sorry to be so dumb...but what is an anchor dayshape? Are they still used today? I've heard of dredge dayshapes but not an anchor dayshape.

Bob Reynolds 05-06-2008 05:28 PM

Jim,

Rule 30 of the Navigation Rules states that "a vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen(i) in the fore part, an all-around white light or one ball; and (ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light described in subparagraph (i) an all-round white light,"

The rules have changed a little from time to time over the years, but there has always been a provision for this. Yes, they are still used -- you see them on ships at anchor in the Mississippi River all the time. Maybe Capt. Ted will post a picture of one. There are other dayshapes as well (servicing aids to navigation is a common one) some you are less likely to see than others, simply because the situation they are meant to call attention to don't occur that often. But, anchoring does, and they do still use the black ball for "at anchor".


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